Политкорректность: иллюстрация
Mar. 8th, 2006 02:36 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
yuccaНедавно я влезла с не слишком глубокомысленным комментом в очередной дискуссии о политкорректности. И забыла бы о нем благополучно, если бы не неожиданная иллюстрация в виде писем в местную газету. Не совсем о социологических исследованиях, но тем не менее.
Контекст: в университете штата Колорадо не слишком много испаноязычных студентов и совсем мало негров. Соответственно есть специальные люди, которые получают зарплату за то, что постоянно обсуждают, как бы изменить эту ситуацию.
1. Panel discussions are not the answer
Before diversity advocates do any more hand-wringing about the low number of minorities attending the University of Colorado, a bitter dose of reality is in order. As pointed out in a highly informative article in the Denver Post (Feb. 21), in 2004 there were a mere 289 black Colorado high school graduates who applied to one of our state's four-year colleges and had an index score high enough to attend CU-Boulder. The problem with the nose counters of minority students is obviously not about discrimination — it's simply getting enough minority kids educated and graduated from high school that's the problem.
Anyone who doesn't believe that our K-12 public education system is in crisis simply isn't paying attention. But as dysfunctional as public education is, a more fundamental problem in getting minority kids through high school lies where it always has — too many uninvolved or disinterested parents coupled with poverty and far too many single-parent households. In many Hispanic families, the problems lie with adults who don't value education as highly as white and Asian families do, along with living with one foot in the United States and the other in their country of origin.
Instead of more wasteful meetings of diversity advocates and further proselytizing to the converted, efforts should be directed at assisting programs like I Have a Dream, and those at Boulder's Family Learning Center where specific and meaningful efforts to get minority kids interested in educational opportunities abound. We need fewer panels and time-wasting summits and more attention paid to what really matters. Focus on efforts that affect the ability of more minority kids to access the abundant and diverse educational opportunities generously offered but not being taken full advantage of.
BOB GREENLEE
2. Greenlee resorts to stereotyping
While we agree with a few points made by Bob Greenlee (Open Forum Feb. 27), we must confront some of his statements. He decries the lack of good data in the diversity debate, and then launches into an unsubstantiated, stereotyped and biased attack on people of color.
Yes, our educational system is in crisis, but we should take a more analytical approach to discern why this problem exists.
Like many others, Greenlee takes the easy approach blaming the victims for this crisis. He doesn't acknowledge the root causes, probably because he is unaware of his privilege and that everyone is not afforded the same privileges because of their race, class, gender, ability or sexual orientation.
We know that Greenlee has been a supporter of getting poor children to aspire to higher education, but it is disturbing that he freely makes blatant judgments about how little people of color value education. We suggest that he spend time and ask them why and how much they value education. He should know that Latino families care as much about their children's education as any white or Asian person does.
He might be surprised to learn that people of color value even more that which is denied them. Whites have no moral superior values for education. Throughout our history, people of color have died fighting for this right. Unfortunately, Greenlee is not alone in his beliefs, just bold enough to speak it. This may be an indication of a willingness to engage in honest and intelligent discussions.
We encourage Greenlee and others to attend the Unlearning Racism Retreat facilitated by renowned diversity trainer Lee Mun Wah, on April 7 and 8, sponsored by the YWCA of Boulder County, to learn how to stop using stereotypes to make his points and to participate in a meaningful discussion about racism.
(8 signatures)
Справка: Боб Гринли - бывший мэр Болдера, республиканец, успешный бизнесмен и филантроп, занимающийся помощью бедным, включая гранты на образование. Подписавшие второе письмо, как нетрудно догадаться, связаны с YWCA и с организациями, занимающимися вопросами меньшинств.
Контекст: в университете штата Колорадо не слишком много испаноязычных студентов и совсем мало негров. Соответственно есть специальные люди, которые получают зарплату за то, что постоянно обсуждают, как бы изменить эту ситуацию.
1. Panel discussions are not the answer
Before diversity advocates do any more hand-wringing about the low number of minorities attending the University of Colorado, a bitter dose of reality is in order. As pointed out in a highly informative article in the Denver Post (Feb. 21), in 2004 there were a mere 289 black Colorado high school graduates who applied to one of our state's four-year colleges and had an index score high enough to attend CU-Boulder. The problem with the nose counters of minority students is obviously not about discrimination — it's simply getting enough minority kids educated and graduated from high school that's the problem.
Anyone who doesn't believe that our K-12 public education system is in crisis simply isn't paying attention. But as dysfunctional as public education is, a more fundamental problem in getting minority kids through high school lies where it always has — too many uninvolved or disinterested parents coupled with poverty and far too many single-parent households. In many Hispanic families, the problems lie with adults who don't value education as highly as white and Asian families do, along with living with one foot in the United States and the other in their country of origin.
Instead of more wasteful meetings of diversity advocates and further proselytizing to the converted, efforts should be directed at assisting programs like I Have a Dream, and those at Boulder's Family Learning Center where specific and meaningful efforts to get minority kids interested in educational opportunities abound. We need fewer panels and time-wasting summits and more attention paid to what really matters. Focus on efforts that affect the ability of more minority kids to access the abundant and diverse educational opportunities generously offered but not being taken full advantage of.
BOB GREENLEE
2. Greenlee resorts to stereotyping
While we agree with a few points made by Bob Greenlee (Open Forum Feb. 27), we must confront some of his statements. He decries the lack of good data in the diversity debate, and then launches into an unsubstantiated, stereotyped and biased attack on people of color.
Yes, our educational system is in crisis, but we should take a more analytical approach to discern why this problem exists.
Like many others, Greenlee takes the easy approach blaming the victims for this crisis. He doesn't acknowledge the root causes, probably because he is unaware of his privilege and that everyone is not afforded the same privileges because of their race, class, gender, ability or sexual orientation.
We know that Greenlee has been a supporter of getting poor children to aspire to higher education, but it is disturbing that he freely makes blatant judgments about how little people of color value education. We suggest that he spend time and ask them why and how much they value education. He should know that Latino families care as much about their children's education as any white or Asian person does.
He might be surprised to learn that people of color value even more that which is denied them. Whites have no moral superior values for education. Throughout our history, people of color have died fighting for this right. Unfortunately, Greenlee is not alone in his beliefs, just bold enough to speak it. This may be an indication of a willingness to engage in honest and intelligent discussions.
We encourage Greenlee and others to attend the Unlearning Racism Retreat facilitated by renowned diversity trainer Lee Mun Wah, on April 7 and 8, sponsored by the YWCA of Boulder County, to learn how to stop using stereotypes to make his points and to participate in a meaningful discussion about racism.
(8 signatures)
Справка: Боб Гринли - бывший мэр Болдера, республиканец, успешный бизнесмен и филантроп, занимающийся помощью бедным, включая гранты на образование. Подписавшие второе письмо, как нетрудно догадаться, связаны с YWCA и с организациями, занимающимися вопросами меньшинств.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-08 10:29 pm (UTC)Единственная неполиткорректная фраза: "In many Hispanic families, the problems lie with adults who don't value education as highly as white and Asian families do, along with living with one foot in the United States and the other in their country of origin."
Действительно отдающая обобщением и стереотипом (про одну ногу в Америке, другую за границей). Так про нас всех можно сказать.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-08 10:33 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-09 02:57 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-09 03:22 pm (UTC)Юкка считает, что он имел в виду сезонных рабочих, вы - что метисов, а если бы я был преуспевающим образованным испаноязычным американцем, то вполне мог бы пoнять как недружественное высказывание на свой счет.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-08 10:43 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-08 11:31 pm (UTC)I agree with you statement above that simply blaming parents for their kids' failures resolves nothing. Finding ways to get them properly involved is what might make a difference.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-09 12:53 am (UTC)Can you help me with references pointing in this direction (APA style is not required)?
(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-09 05:00 pm (UTC)it's pretty much common knowledge - race rarely explains much in people behavior. And the most important single factor in explaning your educational level is your parents' education (see any large survey which deals with the issues, such as GSS).
(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-09 06:44 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-10 07:10 pm (UTC)Stop the nose-counting at the college level and concetrate on high school graduation insead. That implies that if we increase the number of hight school graduation, we'll resolve the issue of low minority levels at colleges. Wow. Maybe somebody can point out to Mr.Greenlee that these are two distinct problems, and even though the former might be at root of the latter one, there are many more factors that affect the number of minority student going on to college, so these two problems still require separate attention (just read the Pew center report). I bet that those eight people who respondened to Mr.G's letter know how to deal with the issues much better than Mr.G. - they probably do hands-on work, while he just funds it. Which once again proves that having money doesn't make you a specialist on everything. Well, duh.
But have you noticed how Mr.G's unfrortunate choice of words brought the comments of some users who actually agree with his supposedly unintended message - that minorities just don't value education as much as the white people? I am starting to think that the 8 letter writers have a point there....
(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-10 10:17 pm (UTC)But I'm not saying that Greenlee is absolutely right, far from it. He's wrong - fine, explain why this is so. You're trying to do this (thanks for the report, by the way), but the letter writers chose not to address the issues of education. Instead, they bombard him with words like "attack on people of color", "blaming the victims", "privileges", which have long ceased to have any meaning and became the marks of pure demagoguery.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-13 03:12 pm (UTC)Really? It seems Mr. Greenlee knows - "The problem with the nose counters of minority students is obviously not about discrimination — it's simply getting enough minority kids educated and graduated from high school that's the problem."
And I can see quite a few people who share Mr.G's views - right here in your journal.
He's wrong - fine, explain why this is so.
So they addressed only one issue which Mr.G got wrong. Maybe there were other letters which addressed his other errors, who knows? What I don't understand is why you are ripping a new one to those who made at least some effort to point these errors out, rather than to those who share Mr.G's views and beliefs in their entirety.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-13 02:38 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-09 04:05 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-09 03:29 pm (UTC)Вы не встречали людей, которые считают, что образование не нужно: "Мой отец всю жизнь работал в скобяной лавке, а тоже, и сын будет"? Или что для девочки главное не образование, а удачно выйти замуж и содержать дом?
(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-09 04:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-10 01:06 am (UTC)Или пороть за каждую двойку?
Мое отношение именно такое - вот тебе, родной, школа, вот библиотека.
Будут вопросы - обращайся, отвечу.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-10 04:43 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-10 02:55 pm (UTC)Если же не хватит - будет фермером. Или дворником. Это должен быть его выбор, не мой. Мое дело - показать ребенку спектр возможностей по мере моих сил.
(no subject)
From:Ну если поздно, то уж поздно. Знать не судьба.
From:Возможно, в США в моменте это так.
Date: 2006-03-09 04:49 pm (UTC)И это правильно, на мой взгляд.
Более того, я считаю, что вреда от желания чтобы все были врачами-юристами, а не строителями-фермерамм, больше чем пользы. А строить-то кто будет? И хлеб растить? И куда прикажете потом девать всех этих депрессующих doctors, lawyers or engineers, которые не призвания ради, а за бабки и социальный статус подвизадись на этих поприщах? Лучше быть счастливым водителем трамвая, чем успешным финансистом на прозаке с зофортом, на мой взгляд.
Re: Возможно, в США в моменте это так.
Date: 2006-03-09 10:40 pm (UTC)Re: Возможно, в США в моменте это так.
Date: 2006-03-09 10:41 pm (UTC)А вот этого я не уловила...
Date: 2006-03-10 01:03 am (UTC)Re: А вот этого я не уловила...
Date: 2006-03-10 04:46 am (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
Date: 2006-03-09 05:16 pm (UTC)well, you are very understanding of Mr.Greenlee. But in your interpretation his words add up to a pretty obvious observation - some parents fail while others succeed. Well, duh! We already know it's not their lack of respect for education (no matter what some overly educated lj-users think), but what exactly is it? And do you know how to deal with it? For some reason, there are way too many people who see a lot of sense in what Greenlee said, and very few who can differenciate between a useless sweeping generalization and actual roots of the problem.